Natalie Kuldell Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi again, Janice. Nice to see you. Welcome. Thank you for talking with us today. I really do appreciate it. You have such an interesting company that you are leading. Maybe if you could just start off by telling me a little bit about what you’re doing now in your company.
Janice Kranz Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah. So Eikonizo, We are almost three years old, so that’s hard to imagine, but it’s a startup company. We were spun out of Mass General Hospital. There’s an academic, a professor. His name is Jacob and his, uh, you know, super power is being able to, uh, he’s a chemist and he’s able to design small molecules that can get into the brain really well, which is, uh, very challenging, but he also is able to design them so that you can use a radioactive, single radioactive atom in the molecule. And if you have that, uh, that makes a, what’s called a PET ligand PET stands for Positron Emission Tomography. And you may have seen beautiful images where, you know, you, uh, inject this into a person, it goes into their blood, it gets into the brain.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
And depending on what target it binds in the brain, it lights up the brain, wherever that target is. And so that, uh, we, he realized he had a tool for a particular target and it’s called HDAC6. And, um, that stands for histone deacetylase. Uh, but it’s a protein that’s in all of your cells, but it’s especially important in neurons. And there’s been literature for like 20 years, uh, with mice, you know, animals and other cell models showing that if you inhibit that target, you can rescue, uh, the growth of neurons, um, the behavior of neurons. And it has helped in mouse, in mice, again, mouse models, um, uh, diseases like ALS or Lou Gehrig’s disease, uh, you know, Alzheimer’s models, um, uh, neuropathy, which is where you, uh, a lot of people suffer from different types of neuropathy. And so it’s been a fantastic target, but the obstacle for getting that from mice into humans is that, um, it’s been hard to get a really brain penetrant compounds.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So in mice you can just dose way up really high, a level might be toxic to humans, but it’s good enough to use in a mouse model to do what we call proof of concept, but then you’re at a dead end because you don’t have a molecule that you can translate to humans. So long story short, Jacob had that secret molecule and sauce, and we develop the company to develop that. And we’re using not only that pet ligand, but also we’re making new molecules that will be used as a therapeutic. And then when we combine those, we have a therapeutic to cure or slow the, these diseases. And then we have, um, we can use them in combination with that pet ligand, that lights up the brain. So we can actually tell how much of our compound is getting into the brain. Um, and that’s been an obstacle for a lot of, of other drug companies out there to make drugs against Alzheimer’s or ALS challenge challenges. Did it actually get to the brain how much got there?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
There are a lot of BioBuilder students who are super interested in brain diseases or, you know, therapeutics and things like that. And that, that is the challenge, right? Get something into the brain, you know, your brain is not meant to actually be readily, you know, taking things up.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
That’s it a very, you can’t unlike for other tissues or, um, if you’re targeting most cancers that are in the body, uh, usually a doctor does a biopsy and you, so you take a little sample of the tumor and you say, how much of the drug got in there, or you take a blood sample, but the brain, you can’t take a biopsy. No, it’s really a black box.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
It’s hard to know what’s going on, hard to treat. And, and with this very special molecule, you guys have a real tool, as you were saying, you know, to do a lot, which is really pretty amazing. So, so you have helped build a company around this. Um, so, um, you know, I didn’t actually let you introduce yourself first and I’m sorry, cause I just find the, the company so interesting, but, um, certainly you should introduce yourself and what your role is in the company and, and you know, a little bit more about, uh, what you’re doing.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Oh, sure, sure. So just to put it in context, the company, uh, you know, the students might not be aware, but we’re, you know, three full-time employees, so it’s not a huge, uh, company. And then we have people who perform different roles, you know, part-time as consultants. Um, and so there’s, and then we, we don’t, we do very small amount of actual what we call wet lab work on our own. Uh, we, a lot of the work is now there are other companies out there they’re called contract research organizations, or C R O S. And those are really good at doing, you know, a particular assay or, you know, experiment over and over again. And so a lot of the work that I’m doing and that the other two employees are doing, um, are, uh, identifying those CROs, which CRO can do the assay that we want with our molecules. And, um, and then we, you know, design everything and, and send things out and requests and we talk by phone or by email. So it’s, uh, it fits into this COVID world very well where you can actually move, advance a drug discovery project without having to ourselves be physically at the bench.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah. It’s a collaborative world. Right. Like we, we can’t all be good at everything and finding the right people to do the job, especially if you can outsource it and get it done.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And so we’ve been over throughout, before and during COVID era, we have had collaborators, uh, you know, in Cambridge, Massachusetts, which is where we’re based, but then also, uh, you know, Delaware, Florida, Michigan, um, Belgium, uh, France is real, uh, China, two different labs in India, California, you know, so really yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
It’s one world, one world doing science.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Background, just to, uh, I grew up in Illinois, uh, Midwest and went to college at the university of Illinois and really liked, uh, research. I always liked science through high school and college and, um, started doing research in college and really liked it, uh, worked throughout the summer and, uh, you know, then figured, okay, grad school is the next step. I applied for a bunch of grad schools and that’s what brought me out to Boston, um, to go to grad school, uh, at Harvard. And so I got my PhD and, um, at that point, uh, I was lucky enough. Uh, there were a bunch of startups and the Boston Cambridge area was just growing. And so I went straight to a startup company as a research scientist. Um, I met with the, the founder, there were two founders, they were two MIT professors, one chemist, one biologist.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Uh, I met with them, you know, in the one guy’s office. They didn’t even have a lab yet. Uh, and you know, I just was inspired by the idea. It felt, it felt a little more exciting than grad school, you know, then the S the, the academic environment. And, um, and so that, I say that was the startup bug for me. And there were, there were five, uh, the, the MIT professor had started several other companies already. So he’s, he’s quite a, what’s called a serial entrepreneur. Um, and he’s still one of my biggest, uh, mentors and backers. Um, he’s at Scripps in LA Jolla. Now, his name is Paul Schimmel, but, um, he had founded Alkermes and replication, uh, before he founded Cubist pharmaceuticals. And so he was very inspiring and just very, um, you know, open about, uh, let’s do this work. And so he hired five biologists and, uh, we were, you know, a good team.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And so I just liked the teamwork, the comradery, um, you know, the challenge there weren’t rules, it was makeup, your rules, just get, you know, we knew what the objective was. We wanted to identify new, uh, targets for they’re called isoleucyl tRNA synthetase is, um, but it was a whole new area for new, uh, antibiotics, both against bacterial and fungal diseases. And, um, you know, it, it was the most exciting five-year, you know, rollercoaster ride, but quite exciting. And so then I just stayed in the Boston area with, and worked in other capacities until I, um, started work here.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah. It’s um, there is a tremendous thrill and excitement to, to the startup world, right. And this notion of, you know, just there aren’t rules, you’re figuring it out, you know, it really does, um, sort of unleash your, your creativity and, and the ownership that you have of it. And, uh, yeah, I can see it’s still, it’s a, it’s a very exciting thing, all your projects are very thrilling for you. I can, uh, I can see. So, um, is there any, uh, drawback to working in a startup that you might say? Cause I do think a lot of young people now are very attracted to working in the startup world, but, you know, are there any things that you would sort of caution or that you’ve learned that you wish you knew?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Um, yeah. Well, I think, you know, I, it’s the soft skills. I think a lot of times, you know, you need the level of technical expertise and math and, you know, you have to be able to make PowerPoint slides, you know, you need all those skills that you teach in BioBuilder, but then whether you’re, you know, whether you’re a good fit for a startup or a bigger company or academia, or, you know, any other flavor, I think there’s more, um, more uncertainty. I mean, the, uh, and the, the pace of change is much greater. And so, uh, if you, you know, even though industry and pharmaceutical industry does have reorganizations, and it’s not like any job would offer jobs security. Uh, but I still think the level of, you know, unknown for a startup company is simply greater. Um, in pharma you can move, there’s more, um, there it’s a bigger team, so there’s, you might have less impact, but then you’ll, you might fit in easier.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You’re noticed as much in a startup company sometimes, you know, uh, when you know, we’re going to hire three people this year. Wow. That doesn’t sound like a lot, but we’re only three people, so that’s a big thing, right. We’re going to double our size. So each one of those hires has a huge impact on the company. And so some people thrive at that and that excites them, but then other people, you know, it might scare. It might be like, Oh, well, I just, I just want to sort of apprentice with somebody for a while. And so I think there’s different fits, right? So understanding yourself, um, and not trying to, you know, be something that you aren’t, because there’s so many different way, different types of companies and different types of roles to the more you understand yourself, then the more you’ll find a good fit and it’ll just feel right.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
And so I think that’s really important. A lot of people just have, maybe they heard it from a professor or something. I know when I was a grad student, uh, 90% of the professors thought you were selling out if you went to a company. So the feedback I got was like, Oh, you’re going to a company, you know, um, that’s, uh, w you must not feel, you must not have enough science, uh, scientific, you know, passion if you’re going to a company. And that was just the attitude. Um, you know, but you can’t let those people influence you and you really just have to say, and, and it’s funny that now things have completely changed where almost every professor has their own company, certainly here in, around Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
I think that is true. There is so much more, um, uh, support for the idea that if you have a great idea in academia, it’s a wonderful thing to start a company into, into the world, right? Like how could that ever be considered lesser? That’s actually like greater good. So,
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, the founder of Cubist Paul Schimmel, he used to joke that, uh, you know, he was, uh, you know, tenured professor at MIT. He’s, you know, well-recognized, um, at Scripps, he helped create and form the whole Scripps, you know, on the East coast, in Jupiter, Florida. I mean, he’s just amazing. And he has repeatedly told us that he could never, he doesn’t have what it takes to be full-time in industry. Like he admires the, you need more perseverance in industry because you can’t really change your goal in academics. You can just go where the science takes you. Um, and he has pivoted multiple times, but in the industry, you know, if you’re going after a disease, you have to focus on that.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I think you’re really focused on that. And that, and that is the, that is the payoff rate. And that is where you’re heading. Right. No matter what obstacles come your way. Yeah. Interesting. Um, it’s lovely to hear you talk about him. Um, clearly his mentorship and, and model and approach to life meant, meant a lot to you. Um, I will, um, just sort of add that, uh, you and I got connected because you had great interest in, in serving in that role for others. Um, we have had BioBuilder students working with you and for your company, and they’ve had a wonderful experience, um, from our Apprenticeship Program into a summer internship where they can intern there. So, um, do you want to say just, you know, what you look for in students, what you kind of hope to have as, as students, you know?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yeah. I mean, um, cause you know, we had two Romaisa and Ama and both of them were just fantastic. Um, uh, and you know, it’s neat to still keep up with them. Now they’re both, uh, you know, in their like, you know, second year of college, which is it’s, so it’s, it’s nice to serve, you know, I’m writing a reference, actually, it’s reminding me, it’s doing a week, uh, for one of them. But, um, I think the biggest thing was, uh, you know, critical, you know, critical thinking, you know, nobody’s an expert, but, um, asking good questions. Like if you don’t understand something don’t fake it. Like, and I have had, uh, when I was at, I had to teach a couple classes and some of the undergrads, you know, they just, they try to fake it and it’s so obvious, you know, it, and so it’s, um, uh, there’s no point in doing that because it doesn’t help.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
It doesn’t help the student, it doesn’t help the project. And so the more honest you are, the better it is. And so, but I think, you know, saying you don’t know when you don’t know and then, but then also not being, you know, being adaptable. And I think we had, I felt a little guilty cause Romaisa, Ama, you know, sometimes there’s just sort of it’s, uh, it doesn’t take, you know, a PhD to do some of this work. We wanted to organize, you know, our, we had run a clinical trial and we needed to organize and make sure that we had all the documentation and well-organized so that if we were audited, we would be able to show that. And, uh, you know, it, it would take, it took hours and hours, but that’s what we, I think Romaisa did, did that project. Um, and, uh, she helped, you know, just even little details, but making it, taking, uh, owning it and making it really useful for us.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
So it saved, you know, it saved hours of my time. So I could just, uh, you know, do some other important things. And I think even working with the documents that helped her understand, like all the stuff that is entailed to run a clinical trial. Um, and so, you know, and I think the both Ama and Romaisa was just in part, when you mentor someone, I want to feel like I’m actually helping them. Uh, and so I think attitude says a lot, just, you know, being happy to do whatever to, you know, as long as you’re learning and you’re in this environment, then, you know, it’s all good. And so I think that that helps the student and then it helps us as well.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And I know that both Ama and Romaisa loved their time working with you and learned so very much from it. Um, and, and appreciated that feeling that you, you mentioned that, you know, it’s more important to ask a good question than to be right. Or to pretend that you were not wrong or don’t know. Uh, so, um, yeah, I think that, that, that came through very clear and that’s really important learning that flexibility, adaptability, humility, all those things that it’s, it’s really about, uh, getting it right. You know?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah. And there’s no expectation, especially I think, um, you know, both Ama and Romaisa were, uh, seniors when they seniors in high school and, you know, they were thinking they probably wanted to go medical school. They, you know, I think they also had a little interest on the business side. And so there’s, you know, I still sort of feel like, I don’t know what I want to be when I grow up. So how can I expect, you know, a, uh, a 17 or 18 year old to know, um, you know, so I don’t, I think it’s just, you know, uh, whether it’s the you’re living in the moment, you know, so there’s a lot of focus on mindfulness, but you just want to enjoy and get as much out of the current experience as you can. And whether you pursue that as a career path or not, um, you know, it doesn’t, it, I don’t, you know, all I care for Ama and Romaisa is that they find the future fit for them. And so the more they want to know, if they’re interested in this as a career path, we’ll provide that. But I also have a lot of connections and know people who are in different career paths and I can, you know, help provide them information on those as well. But I, you know, um, yeah, I think getting out of that, whatever they want.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah. That’s come up in a couple of ways that, that it really is about building a network, because as you said, you know, you might be working with somebody under sort of one current understanding of what they want to do or where they’re headed. If that shifts it’s fun, because you may know somebody who could help them with that shift. And that, that is part of mentorship, but it’s not any kind of like, um, it’s not a failure, it’s actually a tremendous success with. Right. You know, it’s, it’s a great thing for everybody to be able to, uh, turn around and help the next in line, even if they’re not heading down the same path that you’re ahead
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Or especially because you know, that way, then I learned even more. Um, I don’t want to make, you know, a clone of myself or something I want to, uh, you know, I think, uh, Romaisa wrote me that she’s, um, she is like secretary of this, uh, um, what do you call it a fraternity? Or it’s a, it’s a society for, you know, uh, honors students at UMass. Uh, and, um, so she’s having to learn things like, uh, you know, Robert’s Rules of Order and taking, taking meeting minutes. And I just laughed because, um, you know, I’m having to do that to run my board meetings. And, and so she’s learning it, you know, as a freshman in college.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yep. Yep. And I learned it. Um, I had a board meeting yesterday and I learned it so we, we are all, like I said, good learners, boy, that’s a wonderful thing. So, um, I do have one, a little bit off-beat question for you. And then maybe we’ll, we’ll ask if there are questions, um, uh, from the students, but, um, have you been bicycling through all this? I know that you normally bike to work. We have snow here. Have you been biking?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
If it weren’t for COVID? I, I would have, um, I used to bike from, you know, just, uh, the three miles from the train to the lab. Uh, and now my, my bike has been sitting, I guess it’s been since March 12th, my, I have a bike at home and then a bike of my commuting bike. So my commuting bike is, I don’t even know if it’s still there in the basement of the train station. I keep thinking I should drive in just to see if my bike is still there.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Well, maybe on the anniversary of having left it, it has been a long time. I do miss seeing you around the lab, but, um, boy, I am grateful that you took the time to talk about you’re really just wonderful, fascinating company and all the, the wonderful world that, that startup communities really can be and how exciting they are. Um, you know, for people who are interested in scientific things and building things and good, good, uh, applications in the world and things.