Natalie Kuldell (00:02):
Hi Justice.
Justice Walker (00:04):
Hi, Natalie. Good to see you.
Natalie Kuldell (00:06):
It’s so great to see you. I love these career conversations because it gives me a chance to catch up with some of my very favorite people and some of the people I really admire so much and you are among them. So I’ve been looking forward to this conversation. You are doing such really interesting work now that combined science and teaching and education. So maybe can we start there just who you are, where you are and what your job involves.
Justice Walker (00:33):
Thanks Natalie, for the invitation. I’d be glad to share. As everyone knows, my name is Justice Walker and I’m an assistant professor at the University of Texas at El Paso. And so there, I work in the College of Education as a professor for folks who want to teach science at all grade levels. And so my research and focus in teaching tends to be around design in life science. And so what that really means to me, is thinking about how we might leverage a lot of the biotechnologies in synthetic biology that are now available to youth in ways that are productive so that we can build the next generation of policy makers, scientists, innovators and folks who are just interested in having fun with science. And so I spend a lot of my days thinking about how we might study it, and how we might best introduce curriculum that centers design for both teachers and students of all ages.
Natalie Kuldell (01:52):
It’s amazing. It’s so perfectly aligned with what BioBuilder tries to do. It’s exactly the notion that, you know, students have creative ideas and that we can use biology to realize those ideas, right. That it’s not just something we have to inherit and, and live with, but that we can actually manipulate and use towards the things that we want to accomplish. So it’s so aligned with the kind of teaching that we try to do, but I love that you are trying to bring this as a field to people who can bring it to more people. Right. So are you trained as a teacher, as a scientist, as a designer, all of the above?
Justice Walker (02:38):
I think that’s a great question. I think I’ve had sort of a hodgepodge of experiences in my life that sort of came together to guide my participation in what is a growing community of innovators in the space. For me, it started as a undergraduate biology major. I thought I wanted to enter one of the typical fields in science you know, like bench, lab research, or more specifically medicine. And through some life changes and different experiences, I found myself sort of falling back into education. As an undergrad, for instance, I did a lot of research internships, and I did like a research thesis. But over the summers I would tutor or do what was called at the time break through collaborative summer teaching programs sometimes in your neck of the woods in the Boston area.
Justice Walker (03:41):
And that sort of followed me. I went off to grad school, but I would stop short in my education, and I would teach. And so I went to grad school and I thought, okay. So I really enjoy the time. And I’m having all these really incredible opportunities teaching. Why don’t I sort of build on that knowledge of science and that I had. And so I had the really nice opportunity to find a school in Philadelphia, the University of Pennsylvania, that was doing a degree in biotechnology. And so I did that right away. I was really nervous cause I wasn’t sure if I’d be able to like meet the challenge. And I just did it. And I leaned in. Not many people were doing it at the time. And when I looked around, I wasn’t sure if that was really the field that made sense for me, but after I was done, I went back to teach and I saw everywhere, high schools, were thinking about biotechnology programs.
Justice Walker (04:42):
And so I thought, well, here I am, I have the training, let’s try it. So I built the very first biotech class at the school I was at, and the students loved it and I loved it because it gave me a chance to like, do all these really cool sort of assays or experiments I had sort of really grown to love. And so again, I just sorted through this serendipitous journey, found myself in education and my love for science sort of coming together. And at one point I think, you know, I don’t tell a lot of people this, but my GRE score was about to expire, in addition to the fact that I was sort of thinking about how I might like grow further. And so I applied to grad school and I was very lucky to apply at a time where my would be advisor was looking at biotechnology in relation to computing and, and sort of the universe aligned itself where I had like a foundation in life sciences, enough teaching experience to merit going into a doctoral program in teaching and learning, and advisor who had funding to support me in a new endeavor.
Justice Walker (06:04):
And so it was that sort of that sparked my foray formally into this field specifically, where I’ve met so many really incredible people doing really cool things. And so I don’t know if it gets more random than that, but it was a pretty random, I mean, I’ve, I wasn’t trained as a teacher outside of my PhD, which gave me a really strong foundation, but outside of those experiences I didn’t really have a game plan. It just sort of happened,
Natalie Kuldell (06:35):
You know, serendipity does play a role in just about every conversation I have that, you know, you can plan as much as you want, and then it’s just like, right place, right time, or, you know, you follow your gut and land in a place that tells you what you kind of knew, but didn’t know, and you can pursue it. So, I see you… Well, it’s all very brave of course, and that’s a very hard thing to do. But you’re also incredibly creative in the way that you combine things. Because I think a lot of students get advice like, “well, pursue the things that you find interesting and they’ll come together in a good way.” And I think that certainly is true, but you need a dose of creativity to be able to bring them together in a meaningful way, which I think you do so well. Do you consider yourself a really creative person too?
Justice Walker (07:35):
You know I don’t know that I’m super creative. I will say that I’m really open and I’m flexible to trying new things and so consistent with what you’re saying. I think if I were to give, and I have given folks advice about what to sort of lead with as you’re pursuing a career or an endeavor, I’d probably say to lean in authentically and deeply, and just immerse yourself, like dive into unchartered territory and just try it. And I think in learning to sort of navigate these sort of unchartered waters, if you want, it becomes a sort of fun and it sorta makes you be uncomfortable, or comfortable with discomfort if you want. So am I creative? I don’t know. I think I’m open and flexible to new ideas and willing to sort of try things even if they don’t work out. I mean, I know we boast failure a lot as the sort of reframing of trial and error, but I think there is something to the idea that if you can sort of walk away with a meaning in any endeavor that you engage with, what you engage, then I think that’s a win. And maybe you sparked something new that no one else was thinking about or maybe shift the way folks were thinking about something. I don’t know. Does that make sense?
Natalie Kuldell (09:06):
Listens to me, I think what’s hard is to have the resilience to do that because I agree. I think we all learn so much more from the things that don’t go right, then the things that do go right, you know. I’ve run gels backwards, but I run them backwards. It’s that, you know, you learn as you make mistakes, but you need to know somewhere in you that those mistakes aren’t undermining who you are and what you can do. They’re just moving you in a better direction. So, I dunno. Was there a network of people that helped you build resilience or a, it’s just an intrinsic, sort of who you are?
Justice Walker (09:53):
You know, I think I wouldn’t be able to pin. I don’t know that I could pinpoint it on, on a single sort of category of influence. I will say that as a youngster, I tried a lot of things, right. Like in middle school and high school and even college, I really tried a lot of different things because I wasn’t a social person necessarily, like I didn’t lead with the social, but I was really interested in just seeing where I could fit in. And I think through those experiences and having like small setbacks, but then sometimes big setbacks and then sort of figuring out how to sort of come back from those, you sort of, I think what emerges is a skillset that might include resiliency, flexibility, being able to pivot really quickly. The most contemporary example I have that I can give as a manifestation of that is in my current effort to establish a lab of some sort like a teaching research lab.
Justice Walker (11:01):
And so recently there’s a, I was afforded the opportunity to work with a maker-space that exists at the university in this really cool new building that is dedicated to research. And so as I start ordering like all these lab equipment, the building managers like, well, these are wet lab tools, and this is a maker-space. And I was like, “exactly.” And so in that moment, I was contending with two ideas, right? Like, Oh my gosh, the building manager administrator is going to say, you cannot have wetlands space in this space, but then I thought, well, “sir, this is such an opportunity to establish sort of a model” because it really is, right. Like, to be able to think about how we might infiltrate or bring these life sciences in spaces that are not typically equipped for them is such an important learning experience. And it was in that moment that I was able to really quickly sort of reframe the context in my mind and to this person, but that sort of quick pivot only happened because I’ve had years and years of things that just don’t work.
Natalie Kuldell (12:11):
People going, wait a minute, you want to do “what?””yes I do. And here’s why.” Right. Yup. That’s so great. I think it’s going to be awesome to be able to run some of this in that maker space. We, we had a chance to run some programming together you know, sort of apart, but together when you were still in Philly, you were gracious enough to teach one of the BioBuilder teacher professional development workshops. I view that as another one of those serendipitous kind of happy circumstances that brought us together to work on a program together. And that you’re just, you know, able to jump right in because they hadn’t run that program in that space before either. So you seem to be making a habit of this,
Justice Walker (13:07):
It was really fun. And I really enjoyed that. And I enjoyed working with Lindsey who is doing a really fantastic, I mean, she’s just shining everywhere. with high schoolers and bringing synthetic biology and BioBuilder to those communities. I agree like those moments where people can come together and just try something for the first time and, and see how it sort of comes together as a spirit that we don’t get to see often, but is thriving, it seems, in the syn bio, bio-design, DIY bio community, bio community, and I’m really thrilled that we were able to work together. I had been following BioBuilder for a while. And I think I had a fan moment when I first met Karen Ingram at an event. And I was like, “are you Karen Ingram?” She had no idea who I was. And I was like, I read your book. I know your book. I use it. I cite it all. I think I told her I cite it like two times, but I think that’s what our community is. Right. It’s a bunch of people doing really cool things and I’m excited to sort of get together when we can.
Natalie Kuldell (14:18):
Right. I think these sort of happenstance collisions that allow us to do more and to do new things. We all admire one another’s work, which I think is a good place to start for sure. Well, I’m super excited to continue to teach with you and work with you. This stuff you’re doing out at UTEP is awesome. The teachers that are gonna come out of your program, they’re going to change the world. We need a mindset change in the way teaching of life science especially gets done. So this is how you start. Yeah.
Justice Walker (14:51):
Thank you. Natalie, I’m thrilled and I’m really excited for the work ahead.